Hi John I've been looking at the examples that you sent me and I've posted a couple of them up on here for everyone to see. What I'm not understanding is how detailed do i go in the modelling stage in 3DS Max and when do i stop and let Z-Brush do the work? I'm alittle concerned at the moment as I'm starting to go over budget as my character is already on 11,556 tris. Dean has told me that i can go up to 20,000 tris as this was his tri budget for the characters that he has created. So I'm not entirely sure the correct plan of action John?